18. The Vegan Publisher On Writing a Book To Expand Your Mission, Eating Meat To Fit In, Addiction Struggles & Growing Up In A Hindu Family (ft. Mitali Deypurkaystha)
On today's episode I am joined by Mitali Deypurkaystha a.k.a "The Vegan Publisher." Mitali is a best selling author, keynote speaker and book consultant for vegan, ethical, sustainable, entrepreneurs and brands. Today we discuss how to get a mission on the map, why Mitali went vegan, her struggles in a predominantly white neighborhood, drug addiction, how her cat changed her life, hinduism and self growth.
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Full transcript -
00;01;52;14 - 00;01;54;11
JAMIE
Thank you so much for coming on.
00;01;54;21 - 00;01;55;25
MITALI
Thank you for having me.
00;01;56;24 - 00;02;25;06
JAMIE
This is so great. I love what you're up to and I'm just so excited to share with my audience who you are, your story. And we're going to talk about veganism. We're going to talk about both publishing. We're going to talk about different forms of activism. We're going to talk about struggles, drugs and addiction. We're going to talk about trying to fit in, I think is also going to be a really nice theme here and how that led you to eating meats, but also led you to where you are now.
00;02;25;18 - 00;02;33;03
JAMIE
So why don't you give a little introduction about yourself for people that don't know you? Who are you and what are you up to these days?
00;02;33;07 - 00;03;14;16
MITALI
Okay, so I'm totally a vegan publisher and I work with vegan plant based, ethical, sustainable entrepreneurs or experts. I'm now working with a couple of nonprofit leaders as well. And the aim is too for people who've never written a book, they have no idea how to even go about writing a book. I help them through the process and at the end of it they have a professionally published book and it's used for market buying reasons, which is why I do specifically work with entrepreneurs or nonprofit leaders or even charity leaders, the people who have a brand of some sort, and they need to get more eyeballs on what they do.
00;03;14;16 - 00;03;36;24
MITALI
And especially within the vegan and the plant based movement. I mean, we've come a long way. I've been vegan since 2012 and even in just ten years, it's like night and day, I remember. And 2012, even in the UK, I would say to people, I'm vegan and go, What is that? I had one gentleman that thought I had some sort of diseases that he took my hand on.
00;03;37;07 - 00;03;54;14
MITALI
And I'm really sorry, my darling. Can you tell me what that is? And I'll do whatever I can to help you. And I was just like, No, I thought, well, how do I know this is how I think it must have said that had like measles or something. I don't know what he thought. I said to him, like some sort of affliction.
00;03;55;07 - 00;04;01;16
MITALI
And he just he sat down and just like, tell me what this is, and I'll do whatever I can to know it's not a disease.
00;04;02;22 - 00;04;06;09
JAMIE
It's a disease of not wanting to harm animals. Sorry.
00;04;06;09 - 00;04;24;06
MITALI
Luckily, because it's like a good thing, you know, I want you to not cause harm rather than I've been harmed in some way. And compared to now in 2020, yes, some people really don't like vegans, but at least they know who we are. You know, you're not going to have somebody that was going to say, what is that?
00;04;24;16 - 00;04;49;01
MITALI
So we've come on leaps and bounds, but I think we can all agree in the movement. We're certainly not where we want to be. We're still the minority. We still have to go around telling people that we do not contribute to animal torture. Why shouldn't it be the other way round? Why are we having to label our stuff as non cruelty or non torture or non murderous?
00;04;49;01 - 00;05;24;01
MITALI
But the other stuff is normal in inverted quotes should be the other way. Like you know how you have. I can I should listen to a couple of your podcasts. I listened to a couple of your podcasts and I really like the one where you were talking about how you have on cigaret packets. You have these warnings, you have horrible pictures now of like, you know, a liver that's completely decimated by smoking or a lung that is just completely blackened and it's really helped to stop people smoke and that should be done on meat in all animal products and dairy products.
00;05;24;13 - 00;05;49;12
MITALI
And I just think, well, yeah, that's that's absolutely that's true. Really. That should be labeled the bad stuff should be labeled. Why are we labeling the good stuff? You know, so my, my reason for being the vegan publisher is I used to be a copywriter and a ghostwriter, try out all kinds of things, you know, landing pages, sales pages, emails, articles, newspaper articles.
00;05;49;12 - 00;06;10;15
MITALI
I think I think I've written at some point in my life. But when I was researching with all my previous clients, the piece of content that really put them on the map, I really got them a ton of visibility and attention on the media and that sort of thing was when they became an author. It impresses people, you know, having a website, people like WOOP, do you do you have a website?
00;06;10;15 - 00;06;40;19
MITALI
So does everybody. It's just not a big deal being on social media. Everyone's on social media, it's not a big deal. This is a sale. And also people go, Oh, you must really know what you're talking about on this subject because you're an author and they listen and that's why when I realized, you know, my activism is to really just expand and increase the visibility of these incredible plant based, ethical, sustainable entrepreneurs and charity.
00;06;40;19 - 00;06;53;20
MITALI
This is a nonprofit of it is. So they get even more eyeballs on what they're doing. And then less fingers crossed. I'm not I'm not saying I'm old. I'm a lot older than you, Jimmy, but not saying I'm old. I'm in my forties and going to be 44 in a few weeks, so I'm not.
00;06;54;06 - 00;06;58;08
JAMIE
Death you would never even know. I mean, glowing skin, everything. You know, if you.
00;06;58;08 - 00;07;22;04
MITALI
All right. I love you already. But I'm not saying I'm old. I'm not what you'd classes young and I would say I'm probably at the midpoint of my life, maybe even a little bit beyond the midpoint of my life. I'm my goal is I want to die in a vegan, normal world. You know, that is my goal where I'm not saying all my teachers will be gone by then, but it'll be this weird thing, that small group of people do.
00;07;22;05 - 00;07;47;09
MITALI
You know how we we see documentaries of, you know, tribes in these forests are still living this old life like, oh, my God, isn't that amazing? That's why I want me just to be this strange. Our communities, I just thought, isn't that hard that they're still doing that it should not to be kind and not want to kill and not want to torture should not be the exception.
00;07;47;09 - 00;07;53;21
MITALI
It should be the rule. And this is my activism to try and get as many people to understand that through books.
00;07;54;15 - 00;08;05;12
JAMIE
It should be the moral baseline. And you're absolutely right. I think, you know, we have to have some sort of optimism in this movement where we will reach that. We will get there. And that's what keeps us.
00;08;05;12 - 00;08;29;27
MITALI
Going 100% just in time. Yeah, it's like I said, the difference in ten years just in the UK is astounding. I try to imagine why the next ten years is going to go, you know, especially now we've got you know, I think I remember this country podcast recently and it was one of the major chicken farms in the UK and he was saying by 2030 he's probably going to chase it out and go.
00;08;30;05 - 00;08;52;24
MITALI
And that's a major chicken farm. He's already thinking, Yeah, I don't think this is going to this is not going to be sustainable. You know, the tide is turning a moment. People are just going, no, I'm not comfortable with it. So we I know, especially in this movement, we are we have to be smart as both ourselves to see a lot of images and videos that are just heartbreaking.
00;08;52;24 - 00;09;08;12
MITALI
And, you know, I try actually now keep away from it because I know I don't need to see that anymore. I'm already converted, so I don't need it. I don't need to torture myself by seeing horrific things is just going to send me to bed and not be doing my work and doing what I need to be doing to further the movement.
00;09;08;18 - 00;09;23;07
MITALI
So I don't even I literally when I'm scrolling through and to me it's like not for me, not even looking at it, closing my eyes. I don't need to see it. I value it because it needs to be shown for people who are still not aware of what's happening, but I don't see it.
00;09;23;13 - 00;09;40;04
JAMIE
So how did you make the connection? Lets what? I know that you grew up not eating animals, but where was that real ethical connection? Because I feel like, you know, part of Hinduism and culture, people just don't eat animals. But you're vegan.
00;09;40;04 - 00;10;09;29
MITALI
Yeah, I'm beyond India. Really. I actually it can be contentious for Indians too. They get quite a it's interesting. It's interesting seeing the the the roadblocks of veganism that different in different cultures. So in India you would assume that the you know more likely to be vegan because like I said, most of them are vegetarian anyway and yet there still is a sense of entitlement to dairy and then they get upset.
00;10;09;29 - 00;10;27;27
MITALI
You know, when I'm over there, I've even had it with some of my family on. They'll just they'll make me a cup of chai with loads of cow's milk and I'll say, no, give it to me. Thank you. And those like you, I'm not having animal juice. Don't want it inside my body. Thank you very much. It should have been left in the animal.
00;10;28;08 - 00;10;48;24
MITALI
And and then they get upset because it's in India. Indian culture is very based around food, more so than UK culture, which is based around alcohol. And so dairy features a lot in Indian food. And because it's part of the culture, when you rejected that person feels you ejecting them and I'm go, No, no, no, I'm not rejecting you.
00;10;48;24 - 00;11;07;16
MITALI
Love you to pieces. It's not you are rejecting it's is ideology around us taking something from a mother that's not even designed for us, but they don't get that. So yeah, it actually came from my veganism came from nothing to do with religion, nothing to do with culture. As I've just explained in India, a lot of dairy is consumed.
00;11;07;29 - 00;11;29;18
MITALI
It actually came from a cat who I wish was around that show you, Jamie, a butcher, I think you sleeping somewhat. But this cat turned up in my life in 2010. I didn't even want her to think outside. Going to be everywhere. There's going to be sell my tea. It gets there in my neck door so just gets everywhere.
00;11;29;18 - 00;11;53;14
MITALI
We all know if you have a cat or dog, the places they don't even go to and you still get fear in that. So I just thought, yeah, I don't want a capital. My little sister just begged him back to back and she really wanted cats. We eventually relented and then within a few weeks of just watching this, this tiny cat just understand the different personalities within the household.
00;11;53;20 - 00;12;15;26
MITALI
She'd be very aware of who needed her that day, who's had a bad day at work, who's had a terrible day at school. My little sister was still in school at that time. I just thought, Oh my God. And then realizing the cats don't even make it to the top 20 of intelligent animals we eat a couple of the most intelligent animals, pigs and octopus, and just being horrified by that.
00;12;16;01 - 00;12;34;15
MITALI
And that was it. I didn't even go vegetarian. I was vegetarian. I was bored only because I come from a Hindu background. It wasn't really a choice. It was just, you know, my parents are Hindu, so we don't eat meat. There we go. It wasn't my choice. I'd try that. And then as I got into my rebellious teens, I wanted to fit in with the society around me.
00;12;34;22 - 00;12;53;03
MITALI
I was I was living in a predominantly white community, so, of course, back then, even vegetarianism, if they didn't even know what vegan was. And so I started eating meat. Sadly, if I can go back in a time machine now, I would give myself a rigorous shake and be like, What the hell are you doing? You said, Girl, don't be doing that.
00;12;53;03 - 00;13;11;19
MITALI
But at the time I just wanted to fit in and everyone was going to McDonald's and KFC and all of those. Now I know horrible places and so I just did that. But yeah, believe it or not, it was a little cat that came into my life and that's how I just thought, I can't do this. It still wasn't overnight.
00;13;11;23 - 00;13;30;17
MITALI
I mean, I think the whole process took about two years. I did that thing that a lot of us do when maybe you turn your eyes off. I think I said this to you before. I'm very, very jealous of Gen Z because you guys are just far more and more evolved than we were at that age. It's far more evolved that even we are at this age now.
00;13;30;26 - 00;13;50;10
MITALI
And it still took me about two years because I did this thing of, Oh, well, I'll just buy meat and eggs from ethical for you know, I need to you you food yourself it's like, oh, it's okay as long as a pig has some feel to walk around in and wasn't in the shed, it's okay to kill him.
00;13;50;10 - 00;14;06;11
MITALI
And he said, No, it's not. And but I went through that for about two years. But again, it was just in the back of my mind that it's like it's just like it's like, you know, it's like a love. It's like I'm not part of the KKK, but I'm still going to be racist. That doesn't make it. Okay.
00;14;06;22 - 00;14;20;09
MITALI
So that's what I was doing is like I'm not buying factory farmed animal products, so that's okay. But I knew deep down it wasn't so it lasted about two years until I couldn't ignore my conscience anymore. And I was just like, That's it.
00;14;20;21 - 00;14;27;09
JAMIE
Do you think you were still trying to fit in at that point? Was it just more convenient? Like, was it the taste? What what was keeping you.
00;14;27;20 - 00;14;49;06
MITALI
Up point had gone beyond. I mean, my fitting in the era, I would say, ended at the age of about 30. I finally grew up. It took me three years and 40. Jamie and I finally grew up and I realized it's not just things thing and you have to be comfortable yourself with who you are. And then the people who like you will like you and the people that don't like you, they know the doors.
00;14;49;17 - 00;15;25;05
MITALI
But to really embody that, it took me three years. So by the time I was vegan I was already in my early thirties. So I'd gone over this needs to fit in and to please people. And I was now my own woman. So that wasn't the reason why I did the whole ethical farming nonsense. The reason I did that was, again, the brainwashing from a very early age, that protein we all now know that's just nonsense that you can get more than a protein from beans and pulses and that it's in fact, it's a better form of protein, that animal protein.
00;15;25;05 - 00;15;51;02
MITALI
And but I you know, I fell for that nonsense, you know, that you need protein and iron B12, you know, all that nonsense, dairy, what you need for calcium, which is like now, now looking back, it's like how ridiculous is I think of some of the biggest mammals that walk on the planet like elephants that vegetate that that vegan stuff, stopping them from being powerful.
00;15;51;05 - 00;16;14;29
MITALI
Then I'll go. I mean, I need to have some milk from another species to go big and strong, so it doesn't make sense. But when you're indoctrinated into something since you're a baby. So yeah, I kind of I worries about my health. I thought I've become malnutrition and all of that stuff. And then the more I read into and the more I realize that actually, no, I can get all the protein I need.
00;16;15;08 - 00;16;24;08
MITALI
You know, I don't need fish for omega three in six aisles. You know, that's when I start to become comfortable and that's when I became vegan.
00;16;24;08 - 00;16;31;02
JAMIE
And so how did your parents react to your decision to leave the vegetarian lifestyle?
00;16;31;29 - 00;16;48;09
MITALI
And then my dad passed away in 2007, so he never saw me as a vegan. I think he would have been very happy. My dad was very I'm out of all the kids. There's four of us and I'm the oldest. And I say I'm the only one like my dad. The three others, two sisters and a brother, are more like my mother.
00;16;48;22 - 00;17;06;08
MITALI
And so I was the only one like my dad. I think my dad would have actually got it. I can't say for sure. My mother thought it was a phase like the old enough to phase or come out of it. And then after a year later she said, this isn't a phase and she still rebelled against it. You know, she still doesn't understand.
00;17;06;08 - 00;17;31;02
MITALI
She still does it all. But it's just you just you can't make a difference. And I have to convince the side. But if we all survive and then none of us do anything, then we wouldn't have had slavery still be a thing. Women not being able to vote and being property of men would still be a thing. All of these horrible things would still be a thing if we just sat there thought, I'm just one person, I'm just one woman.
00;17;31;10 - 00;17;59;12
MITALI
We've got to think it doesn't matter. Whatever we can do, the little bit we can do all contribute, you know, but we're getting there, you know, I have a bit of a breakthrough either just this year, a few weeks ago when I was and I talked about how in the UK you legally are allowed a certain percentage of police and urine and blood in milk and that kind of made it go, oh, so she's a bit like.
00;17;59;28 - 00;18;00;08
JAMIE
Light.
00;18;01;17 - 00;18;12;01
MITALI
So I get the feed and you now so like eyeing up my ultimate things like maybe I'll just try some milk in my cereal, I might feel free to do so. Go for it. See what happens.
00;18;12;11 - 00;18;34;23
JAMIE
My boyfriend is his dad was from Bangalore. From India. Oh, wow. Yeah. And so he's from here and but he goes to India, you know, some summers and spend time with family over there. But he talks about how there's literally cows walking around the streets. Oh, yes. The love is I right. There is this idea of like love the cow, respect for the cow.
00;18;35;00 - 00;18;47;05
JAMIE
But I think it somehow gets mixed up or confused because what I don't understand is if we're taking the baby away from the mother, how is that respecting the animal? Like, I just.
00;18;47;19 - 00;19;04;26
MITALI
Again, it's that cognitive dissonance. I mean, I remember being Basam, I was in India was in 2019, just before the pandemic hit in early 2020. And I was in Goa and I went, Oh, I can go. If I had to go to an all night rave, it's kind of you have to do that. Several laws are five in the morning.
00;19;04;26 - 00;19;23;07
MITALI
The sun is coming up and it's like a rave that was happening in a bar that spilled out onto the beach. So we were still all dancing like a like lunatics at five m in the morning and then just suddenly about 30 tiles decide to join us. And it was really strange. The kind of look is going, You stupid human beings, what are you doing?
00;19;23;12 - 00;19;26;16
MITALI
I'm well, like, you know, with clothes, sticks and everything.
00;19;26;16 - 00;19;29;17
JAMIE
Yeah, that's epic. That sounds like my kind of party.
00;19;29;20 - 00;19;54;13
MITALI
Oh, my God. These humans are crazy. What are they like, Joey? But they were very. They were so calm. They weren't rattled by the music. And it was so nice because it I just it made me sad because I thought I just thought the cows in the UK and they would be rattled by that, you know, because all they know really is the human beings are horrible creatures who just hate them.
00;19;54;23 - 00;20;11;20
MITALI
And the fact that these cows felt close enough to common to a bunch of bunch of ravers with glow sticks, you know, with this pounding music coming out. And they were quite keen to get close to us and yes, looking at us as if as if we're weird but not scared of this at all. It's a beautiful thing.
00;20;11;20 - 00;20;33;12
MITALI
And yet again, that cognitive dissonance is all like, okay, so we in India, we love the cow so much they commit, you roam around and do what they want. Traffic literally stops. The cows are not happy. I don't know what it's like in Bangalore. I've never been. I'll be honest with you, Jeremy. I've been to a number of major cities in India and traffic literally stops for cow crossing road.
00;20;33;19 - 00;20;50;17
MITALI
They don't even stop a human beings like human beings. The traffic doesn't stop for them. But since the cows on the road, all the traffic slows down. It's like, let the cow do what they need to do, and then they start to get. So there's all this respect and then there's still taking the milk.
00;20;50;18 - 00;20;56;14
JAMIE
So in parts of India, they do eat me do. Yeah.
00;20;56;14 - 00;21;19;02
MITALI
Which was like what my mother heard about that. She found that really, really odd. I think that that's so that's one of the the weird things about India I think it's similar to the US I would say is like you can tell me if I'm wrong and because you know, I kind of see each state in the US as a country in itself because when I've met people from different states, you guys are so different.
00;21;19;03 - 00;21;36;05
MITALI
I'm like a car we think he does is American. It's like you guys are from a continent in itself and I would say India is like that. So I will have friends who will travel in parts of India and they'll come back and be like, Oh, we did this and we did that and expect me to go, Oh my God, that's amazing.
00;21;36;05 - 00;22;01;20
MITALI
That's like I'm probably going to be talking about, This is not my future. I don't know. I'm happy for you. Sounds like you had an amazing time, but nothing about what you said. You might as well be talking about another foreign country. So yeah, there are. I mean, when I didn't, it took me well into my twenties to realize that some parts of India actually do eat meat.
00;22;02;06 - 00;22;24;09
MITALI
And I was like, Wow. Like that's no where, where we that's not what we come from. So yeah, it's interesting to see that. But I still think it's I mean, vegetarians are the overwhelming majority in India. But yes. And I think what's also sad now is as India starts to develop into a superpower, meat eating has gone up.
00;22;24;09 - 00;22;38;13
MITALI
So way to where it's going down in Western countries because of the vegan and plant based movement. It's going up in India. I'm like, no guys, no, you guys were already ahead of the West. Don't go backwards. But sadly, that's what's happening.
00;22;39;09 - 00;22;54;14
JAMIE
That's crazy. Wow, that's unfortunate. So why don't we backtrack a little bit and talk about journalism and school and how you it led you into becoming the vegan book publisher that you are now. What?
00;22;54;14 - 00;23;16;25
MITALI
I stop me honestly, Jamie, I just wanted to keep my parents happy. Like a typical good little Indian girl. Yeah. Just want to do whatever your parents want. You did. And they wanted me to follow medicine. I know it's so boring. As an educated India woman, there's nothing else for her to do about being a doctor. I literally was meant to be like a walking, talking stereotype.
00;23;16;25 - 00;23;35;10
MITALI
I think that's what I was meant to be. And to be honest, I was happy to go along with that. I wasn't against the idea. I think being a doctor is quite a noble profession. It's a helping profession and not from a selfish point of view. Everyone needs doctors. That's never going to stop, you know? It's something we like, Oh, we don't need those anymore.
00;23;35;10 - 00;24;10;26
MITALI
So and now knowing what happens with the, you know, the typical standard American diet, more doctors are needed more than ever, really, let's be honest. So I was happy to go along with it. And I've always I've always written, I've always enjoyed writing, but I never really saw it as a career option. So I was happy and I even in the UK with our first so big exams are called GCSEs and then we have the next all the exams, usual A-levels and those determine whether you get into university or college, as you guys call it.
00;24;10;26 - 00;24;33;17
MITALI
So I did my GCSEs. I specifically picked subjects that would help me with medicine and I even picked out the A-levels I was going to do, which was going to help me and study medicine at university. And then one of my teachers took one of the essays that I'd written and sent it into a public competition, a nationwide competition.
00;24;34;02 - 00;24;53;02
MITALI
And without telling me, by the way, she said today, I thought it was good enough and just said to them. And then she got she heard back from them and I won one of the 30 places to go and do like a summer school in Edinburgh in Scotland, where they would teach me all the, you know, how to do different kinds of writing.
00;24;53;18 - 00;25;12;21
MITALI
So again, even when I wasn't, I wasn't thinking, oh yes, this is a career for me. It was just like this, just something fun to do. Let's just go and do it. So I did that. It was like a two week. And you stay over in the halls of residence at Edinburgh University and one of the tasks we had was me and five other kids.
00;25;12;28 - 00;25;33;00
MITALI
We actually watched an episode of a long running soap in the UK and that ended up airing. It took a few, you know, a few weeks, but a few months but then aired. And that was a changing point. I think, you know, before that it's just something fun that I did. I was happy for it to remain something fun that I did.
00;25;33;16 - 00;25;56;27
MITALI
But seeing that something that I could have a hand in writing could end up on TV and millions of people can watch it. That was I. Oh, wow. And that is when things change. I really start to see writing as a something that I can do as a career. So I came back, I changed my A-levels. My dad didn't speak to me for six months.
00;25;56;27 - 00;26;19;00
MITALI
He was so upset. He really wanted a doctor in the family. Yes, I have to disappoint him. So it's been to be out six months, thank God. And then I went off to university and I had to do media studies. So that was that was the first big change. Otherwise I'd probably be like a doctor or a surgeon or something like that right now.
00;26;19;10 - 00;26;40;04
MITALI
And so that was the first big change. And then the next big change happened. It was much later on. So I went to university, I ended up I had I think I had major issues growing up because I grew up in a predominantly white community and in the eighties very different to, you know, we're far more evolved now.
00;26;40;04 - 00;27;03;09
MITALI
We talk about things like race and, you know, setting in. Back then, there wasn't much conversation around that sort of thing and I felt very isolated. There was no other brown children or even even even the black. It would have been great, you know, just somebody of color would do that. There was no one. There was just me, my brothers and sisters and a sea of white faces.
00;27;03;19 - 00;27;21;29
MITALI
And, you know, I felt very isolated, felt like I didn't belong. So I went to university and we have this thing called Freshers Week. I don't know why. I'm sure you have something similar in the US. They the first week when you go a little bit crazy, you're drinking 24 seven syllabus.
00;27;21;29 - 00;27;22;25
JAMIE
Me silly.
00;27;23;00 - 00;27;40;14
MITALI
How are you guys going? Oh my God. Eventually we call it Freshers Week as a fifth, the first in a year that fresh at university. So they call freshers a bit like how you guys what do you think you call them freshmen. Don't you see some of that. Yeah. Do you guys see freshmen. We say freshers. So that week is freshers week.
00;27;40;21 - 00;28;03;10
MITALI
And you don't do any work. In fact, you don't sleep basically. You just drink like you don't have a liver. You just go a little bit crazy. And it's called Freshers Week. And I met people and you know, back at that time they weren't just doing alcohol, they were doing ecstasy and MDMA and ketamine and that sort of thing.
00;28;03;21 - 00;28;32;24
MITALI
And I remember feeling like, oh, I shouldn't take that. But I was just it was the very first time. Jamie In my entire life, I felt like people liked me and accepted me just as I am. So I just wanted to do whatever they were doing just to carry on fitting in. So I started to take amphetamines and MDMA and stuff like that, but the sad thing is that when you with any kind of addiction, you don't see where the line is until you've crossed it.
00;28;33;11 - 00;28;52;07
MITALI
So with a lot of those friends, they were able to dabble in drugs. But then when the time came to light that we've got to get serious, we need a study, we're not here to party. They were able to give it up on for sure. I didn't realize that I have an addictive personality and you people don't realize you have an addictive personality until you have an addiction.
00;28;52;13 - 00;29;14;15
MITALI
But that's the way it works. No one tells you and I couldn't give it up. And it kind of took over my life. I ended up not studying, not turning up to classes and getting kicked out of university, which means I lost my accommodation as well because the accommodation is linked to the university and I ended up homeless and up in homeless shelters for about a year.
00;29;14;15 - 00;29;41;12
MITALI
So that was like a real shock to the system coming from a really, you know, a very comfortable I mean, we were a poor family or a poor immigrant family, but we had everything we needed. You know, my dad made sure that, you know, what we didn't have in technology and designer clothes. We had what we needed to come from that really looked after the background and then suddenly be homeless was like a real yeah.
00;29;41;12 - 00;29;42;16
MITALI
A real shock to the system.
00;29;42;16 - 00;29;46;01
JAMIE
What was your experience like in these homeless shelters?
00;29;46;12 - 00;30;06;14
MITALI
You know what, Jamie? This is this. I've had a number of people ask me that. I always say I should not be the poster child for not taking drugs because I paint a really good picture. It was it was terrible. On the one hand, I remember like one of the most vivid and memories I have is going to this homeless shelter.
00;30;06;26 - 00;30;28;14
MITALI
And we weren't allowed TVs. And I lived to have these tiny little rooms, which now, looking back, is like a prison cell now. But at the time I was just happy just to be warm and have a bed and not having to think about sleeping on a park bench and being safe. Remember, if you're sleeping outside, it's not just the elements shadow, but it's the men you have to worry about as well.
00;30;28;25 - 00;30;45;20
MITALI
And so the fact that I was in a women's shelter and I was safe in a way from that, I was just out as far as I was concerned. I just you know, you just took me to the Hilton. But looking back now, I realize I was definitely more than a prison cell, really, and boo and slap TV.
00;30;45;20 - 00;31;07;22
MITALI
So we had on every corridor you had a specific TV, TV room. All the women can gather moshiri I remember the first night to go watch some TV, so I went down to the TV room and there was a huge sign above the counter, says, Please check for needles before sitting down. I remember thinking, Oh yeah, it sounds awful, doesn't it?
00;31;07;22 - 00;31;24;10
MITALI
Like you have to let you turn up. And I still, even now you find this really weird. I mean, if I, if I ever came to meet you, you probably have me looking at a couch, and I'm like, I like to stop myself, but I want to turn up couches. It's still there. This need to turn up couches and make sure there's no needles lying there.
00;31;24;10 - 00;31;45;18
MITALI
Fox's going to sit on it. You know, it'll prick through into me. And but yeah, if you think about I was horrible. I was in an environment where there was, you know, drug users. But in reality, I had an amazing time. It really opened me up to women who had been abused, women who no one chooses to be like that.
00;31;45;18 - 00;32;03;21
MITALI
That's the key thing to remember. You know, the way we look down on drug users and the way they look down on junkies or prostitutes, who the hell chooses them? Don't you think they deserve our empathy and they deserve our help to get them out of this situation? Not to be belittled or made to feel worse, to come in any of us could end up.
00;32;03;21 - 00;32;28;01
MITALI
All it takes is a few things to go wrong. A perfect storm and we could be in that situation. So really taught me a lot of empathy for human beings, all kinds of human beings, to the point that I literally don't judge how someone tells me like they're still taking drugs. For example, or they've been homeless or they were, what we call it, working girl to myself being a prostitute.
00;32;28;07 - 00;32;48;06
MITALI
I don't know if you guys use that in the US, but yeah, I don't judge you so well. We all do what we like to do to survive, you know. And so my, I wouldn't, I wouldn't change the experience of the world. But looking back now, talking about that girl, that was pretty terrible. I was only 19 at the time and I was quite young.
00;32;48;06 - 00;33;25;23
MITALI
19 is all quite a sheltered 19 year old, so it actually was traumatic, but I don't remember as traumatic. I now when you remember the good things, I remember just being with some incredible women and who sadly no longer alive now because of the lifestyle their life expectancy was. They were dead before the in their forties before that, even my age five because if you're if you're doing drugs and you know, you're a working girl and the dangers associated all the time, so be beaten up and to have deal with a lot of sexual violence, your life expectancy isn't going to be all that great, is it?
00;33;26;14 - 00;33;29;21
MITALI
But it really it taught me a lot. So I wouldn't change it for the world.
00;33;30;07 - 00;33;42;05
JAMIE
Well, the thing with addiction is it is it's it's like a disease people don't realize. And I think oftentimes people judge and they don't actually think of it as like a cancer. It's like a disease that takes over.
00;33;42;05 - 00;34;13;02
MITALI
It literally is a mental illness in the same way that you don't judge someone for being schizophrenic or bipolar, you don't judge Sloan for being addicted. Jeremy I hate this sort of labeling and criminalization that happens. It's like, what the hell's going on? You know, these people are ill. They're ill. You know, I was ill. And thankfully, because I end up being put into a great shelter and, you know, I thankfully didn't go down the road of selling myself or doing anything like that.
00;34;13;07 - 00;34;37;04
MITALI
I had a wonderful team of and I had a life coach. I had an addiction counselor. I just had this wonderful team and just took me out and said, no, we don't want you. Because I think they recognize that some of the girls, sadly, they're too far gone. So all they could let you do is try and look after them as much as they can, but they know these girls are going to go out and they're going to work and they're going to sell themselves and they're going to take drugs.
00;34;37;09 - 00;34;55;10
MITALI
Whereas with me, I think this one's really young. Maybe we can fix that. Maybe we can fix it before she goes down this horrible path of me. All these other women are doing so. I was very lucky that these people came in and just said, No, this is not what you're going to do. And I was clean with it.
00;34;55;10 - 00;35;13;26
MITALI
I think it took me. It's difficult to remember when you when your brain is drug addled is difficult time operates in a very different way. But I would say probably 6 to 9 months best part of a year to go completely clean. And then I've never looked back since then and.
00;35;14;06 - 00;35;15;13
JAMIE
Look at where you are now.
00;35;15;13 - 00;35;39;15
MITALI
I know. I know. I did. You I mean, I don't you obviously listeners won't be able to see this as they are own hearing it. But I used to this hair, I lost all my hair. So I was completely bald because my weight plummeted to such depths. I think I was five stone at one stage or five and a bit stones, so my periods complete stop and then I lost my nails completely and just felt from the beds and I lost all my hair.
00;35;39;25 - 00;35;58;08
MITALI
So it's grown back. Thank God it's all there now. But it's. It's really fine, baby. I used to have this kind of, you know, typical thick Indian hair that you can sit on. I mean, that's why India is the number one place to go and get hair extensions because it's so much hair about, you know, and I can't grow that anymore.
00;35;58;08 - 00;36;18;27
MITALI
It's completely changed my the chemistry of my hair. So now I have this all very fine, what I call British hair. Actually, now I have British hair. You know, there's most of British women have sort of like, you know, it's like a medium to find flyaway hair. That's what I got. But I used to have Indian had before the drug abuse.
00;36;19;25 - 00;36;25;14
JAMIE
Wow. Well, you still look great. You're. Oh, thank you. And that you have a story to tell so.
00;36;25;14 - 00;36;47;11
MITALI
Yes, I like I said, I don't even that even the losing the hair I don't regret it because I don't think I'd be half the person that I am now, you know, if I hadn't gone through that. You know, I see some of my friends, especially female friends who, you know, they worry about their look so much. And I know that I still am.
00;36;47;11 - 00;37;09;27
MITALI
I just and every woman, we all have insecurities, especially at the moment. I'm kind of I'm thinking I'm premenopausal. I've actually got a doctor's appointment later this week to get it, but I think I'm going into menopause slowly. So again, all the insecurities that come with that. But I always go back to I was able to be bold at the age of 19 and it didn't kill me and I coped.
00;37;10;04 - 00;37;25;20
MITALI
If you can do that, you can go through anything. WOMAN You'll be fine. Jeremy And that gives me an inner strength that I wish I can give to every woman. I wish I could just give it out and see that would make you feel like it doesn't matter if you put on a few pounds or you've got a few zits.
00;37;25;21 - 00;37;30;29
MITALI
It really ultimately doesn't matter. It's what you do in the world that counts, not how you look.
00;37;30;29 - 00;37;54;25
JAMIE
And that's what you're doing right now. You're taking this amazing business that you have and you're using that to spread that compassion and spread awareness worldwide. So why don't you talk a little bit about your book, The Freedom Master Plan, and how you're teaching people to write these pieces of information, to write these books and basically grow their businesses.
00;37;54;25 - 00;37;57;11
JAMIE
I mean, you've had some real success in that.
00;37;57;12 - 00;38;17;02
MITALI
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've had some incredible clients. I must say. They've been fantastic. But yeah, the freedom my friend came, about because when I was researching the book, I really wanted to find out, well, why don't why don't more people write books as entrepreneurs and experts? You know, that you know, I'm not talking about fiction writers or children's books writers.
00;38;17;03 - 00;38;39;25
MITALI
That's a whole other thing that I have no experience in. But I just thought, isn't it? It's interesting. I remember I remember doing a talk just before the pandemic, and I was in a room of about 90 people, and they were all entrepreneurs, business owners, brand owners, you know. And I got them to stand up and I said, I want you to stay standing up if you have a website.
00;38;39;25 - 00;38;56;29
MITALI
And pretty much everybody is turning up because who doesn't have a website now? And so I want you to stay standing up if you're using social media for your business and a few people sat down, I assume those people are doing things like SEO and that sort of thing, but most people have a social and I went through a few things.
00;38;56;29 - 00;39;16;10
MITALI
I was like, tell me say signing up. If you've got business cards, you know, say signing up. If you've got a blog and you get a few people that sit down here and that. But the majority say signing up and then I'd say stay signing up if you're a published author on this and I've probably had one six out and I did have one person say standing up and it was quite interesting.
00;39;16;10 - 00;39;35;16
MITALI
Everybody burst into a spontaneous round of applause. I didn't even ask them to. They just started clapping this gentleman because he was a really useful what's your book? So it's on Amazon. Let me go and get it. And I remember I just said to the audience, like, isn't that interesting? You wouldn't do that if someone told you they've got a LinkedIn profile.
00;39;35;16 - 00;39;54;12
MITALI
You'll be like, Well done, link to it. That's amazing. You were like, So, well, you know, everyone has a big profile, but see, someone else says an author. It's like, Wow, you really do know what you're talking about here. You really do have authority. I mean, there is a reason why the word author is inside the word authority.
00;39;54;12 - 00;40;14;16
MITALI
You know, it's not coincidence. It's the same thing. So the reason I wrote the famous one is to explain that to people, because a lot of you know, there's a lot of entrepreneurs who quite like the idea of writing a book, but they're just not really sure how does a book fit into my business, you know? So I write the thing.
00;40;14;16 - 00;40;34;28
MITALI
Gray It's now published. What the hell do I do with it? Like, how does it fit in to my existing marketing plan and what I do and how I generate these and how I make sales and how does it fit it? So what I did was I interviewed seven of my previous PI's who've all went on to do incredible things with their book and really take their business to the next level.
00;40;35;11 - 00;40;55;04
MITALI
I just said, I want you guys to tell me everything you did. Just don't know. Holsworth Tell me what you did with your book, and they start to give me all these amazing stories of how they were able to become keynote speakers and how they were able to close more leads, get six figure contracts using that book as like a base almost.
00;40;56;07 - 00;41;18;01
MITALI
And I just said, This is amazing. I just recorded everything and put it all into my book. So now the the point of my book is if you're thinking as a business owner or a brand owner of some sort, if you're thinking about writing a book, go and read my book, The Fate of My Son. And I promise you, by the end of it, either you will have a plan.
00;41;18;01 - 00;41;35;12
MITALI
That's why I call it the master plan. You will have a plan of exactly how a book will fit into your your business or your brand, or you decide it's the worst idea ever. But then that's a good thing as well, because then you no longer have to torture yourself over whether you should write a book. You'll know that, okay, this wouldn't work for me.
00;41;36;13 - 00;41;49;21
MITALI
Let's just get rid of that idea and move on with your life. But at least you'll never have to sit there and think, Should I write a book or not? The Freedom Fund will answer that question for you. By the end of it, you will make a decision by the end of it.
00;41;50;07 - 00;41;58;17
JAMIE
It seems so daunting to actually sit there and write a couple of hundred pages. I mean, where does somebody start with this of.
00;41;59;11 - 00;42;15;19
MITALI
Yes, I always say writing a book is a bit like being at the bottom of a mountain. You know what? You need to be thinking, how the hell do I get there? Like, that's why I need to be able. I can see it, but I don't have to get to it. And that's and that's that's kind of what I deal with in the vegan publisher.
00;42;15;27 - 00;42;32;09
MITALI
And there's two arms of it. There's the book consultancy Arm of the Business, and there is the book publishing arm of the business. And the consultancy part is that is the bear. I think of me as your mountain guide. That kind of is ahead of you leading the way and saying, This is why you need to step and this is why you need to go.
00;42;32;09 - 00;43;01;01
MITALI
And I'm literally guiding you because yeah, I mean, writing a book is daunting unless you've done a Ph.D., then it will be the longest, most detailed piece of content you will write in your life. The only people I know have written maybe more details and more and volume are Ph.D. holders, you know. So I'm actually working with a couple of holders and they're great because they're just not daunted because they've read, you know, they've done PhDs, they're used to writing.
00;43;01;09 - 00;43;27;10
MITALI
In fact, one lady, her Ph.D., was 80,000 words, and a book is only going to be 40,000 words. So she's not even daunting at all. But my average clients, like the longest thing they've ever written, is probably a business report, which should be about 5000 words. So it's very, very daunting. And I will say, you know, the best place to start is to actually dotting the start research already.
00;43;27;10 - 00;43;51;27
MITALI
So find out what they want. That's the key thing. Once you find out what they want, then you can break it down because you are the expert. You can break it down to what people need to know first and then second and then third and then fourth. So, I mean, let me give you an example. Say you're a fitness coach, but you specialize in working with people who literally have never done any exercise in their life before.
00;43;52;08 - 00;44;17;07
MITALI
You know, straight away, the in the first chapter you're talking about doing way to walks and bench presses. They're going to back down. Yeah. Like I've never done exercise before. And you're talking to me about I should be benching things now. That's not going to happen. You know, the order that you take people through. So you probably start off with like, let's do a half an hour, Wolf, let's just get you active and walking and that's it.
00;44;17;16 - 00;44;44;10
MITALI
You know, when you have a client who's never exercised before the process, you take them through. So they come out at the end as a set person. That's all you do with the book. I want to explain that to someone so that you can see the light because it's not really that difficult. This is like, No, you're making it difficult to be seeing as a mountain with a path that you can't see, but you actually know the path because you're already the expert at what you do.
00;44;45;06 - 00;45;07;18
MITALI
So if you're a fitness coach, your life coach, you and I t consultant, you own a nonprofit. You know the process you need to take someone through for them to go to A to B, all you're doing that is just putting that into a book format. So actually when I when I go through the process with my clients, it, you know, they're always amazed.
00;45;07;18 - 00;45;26;26
MITALI
I mean, the biggest compliment I get with my programs is I didn't even think about writing a book. I was just so busy following your instructions. I'm doing my homework. They call it homework, which I find really funny, like there a school with me or something, but they're just going off and they just do their homework. What they need to do and they just keep doing the homework.
00;45;26;26 - 00;45;46;15
MITALI
The next thing you know, a book is being put together on it. It takes yeah, it just takes it over while I'm away. It is like having a guide who's walking in front of you going up a mountain. You're just thinking, Right, well, if I just follow this guide, I'm not going to get lost. So it's not as daunting.
00;45;46;23 - 00;46;05;20
MITALI
It's I always say it's not as daunting as you think it is. It will take work. I'm not going to suddenly and I'll say, Oh yeah, you can just do it in the afternoon. It's going to take work. It takes tenacity, but as long as you, you know, you have the steps laid out in which way to go, it's not as hard as you think.
00;46;06;09 - 00;46;09;03
JAMIE
Have you ever had to turn away either?
00;46;09;28 - 00;46;40;16
MITALI
All the time. Believe it or not, I turn away 50% of the people who approach me. I love it. Like what about the reason? Well, there's two reasons. Sometimes for a small reason, is because of people want to write fiction or chose book. I just have turned away because I don't feel it's ethical to me to take money from someone when I have no experience of writing fiction or memoirs or children's books or recipe books, I don't have any experience in that.
00;46;40;20 - 00;47;08;14
MITALI
So what I do is I do know people within those industries, so I just send them over and say God speaks. So, so those people. But the major one that I turn around is, I would say people who really, really are this is specifically I would say it happens in the plot based on the movement. People really, really do have something to say and they really want to impact more people and help more people understand that being plant based is the only way to be for our survival.
00;47;08;14 - 00;47;33;23
MITALI
Never mind other species in the planet. But they don't have a business or a nonprofit or something. They don't have the structure. And I will say to get a book to a professional standard, you need to budget for several thousand pounds or dollars. Okay. I mean, if you just want to walk something up on Amazon, then it doesn't have to cost you anything.
00;47;33;23 - 00;48;10;29
MITALI
I mean, in all fairness, we you can just create a word document, change it to a PDF this free there's free stuff online where you can change word documents into a PDF, you can upload it onto Amazon, you can just knock out some sort of cover on Canva. You know, it's a free software that you can use. I think you support the eco, but that's not going to get you the respect and the thoughts that you want as a professional publisher, that if you want to do professionally, if you want your book to look like the books you have on your bookshelf from major publishers like HarperCollins and Penguin, Random House and Simon Sheets and
00;48;10;29 - 00;48;31;19
MITALI
all these incredible publishers, if you want to get that level of respect, then you've got to do it right. That involves hiring great editors, cover designers, type typeset, that the people who do the interior design of the book, you need those professionals and they cost money. So you you need to think in terms of thousands, not even hundreds of dollars, I'm told.
00;48;31;19 - 00;48;57;23
MITALI
I usually put aside somewhere between 4 to $5000 for each one of my clients just to pay for editors and cover designers and all these incredible professionals. So I turn away people when they come to me with sometimes a wonderful book idea, but they don't have a charity or nonprofit, therefore they're drawing investors. I'm just saying, okay, well, that means you're going to now spend several thousand dollars with me.
00;48;59;00 - 00;49;23;21
MITALI
How are you going to make this money back? Because if you're waiting to make the money back from book sales, that's going to take years because your average book, you can only charge Kindle, you can only charge about $5. Most people grumble up to $5 because it's a digital download. So they just go, Why you charging more than $5 for something that just digitally into my device with a paperback?
00;49;23;21 - 00;49;45;09
MITALI
You've got more leeway because it's a physical thing that's going out in the mail. But even then, you struggle to charge more than 10 to $20. So the margins are slim. You have to sell tens of thousands of units just to make your money back, whereas the people that I'm working with, they already have an existing business or they're flipping into a new business.
00;49;45;09 - 00;50;09;10
MITALI
I'm working with a a couple of entrepreneurs who are actually moving into a new business, a new brand, and the book is going to ignite that with those clients. They usually make their money back within months. I want Jamal made his money back within two weeks because he published his book and then he sent it. He's a consultant and he sent it to this company this week trying to get a contract with the yes.
00;50;09;18 - 00;50;36;27
MITALI
Setting the book instead of like sales pitch or anything. They're so impressed with this book. They gave me like a high five figure contract for a year. So the money spent on me, the money spent on me just paled in comparison. It was just I I've made the money back about, you know, 11, 12 times old. And now what I spent, those are the people I love working with because I want to make sure that I'm an asset to someone's business.
00;50;36;28 - 00;50;59;00
MITALI
Right. Not a liability, loyalty. And if you're spending several thousands of dollars working with me, I need to make sure that within a milk no, I'm is going to make the money back in two weeks at this gentleman. But within the space of a few months, I expect you to not only make the money back, but to now be making even more money because you're making a even bigger impact in the big and plant based ethical movement.
00;50;59;06 - 00;51;18;05
MITALI
More people are loving what you do want to be part of what you do, and that means you're making more money because you're making a bigger impact. Those are the. That's what I want to hear. Yeah, that's what it needs. And and with those people who don't have that, I just think, oh, my God, you're sinking all this money into me.
00;51;18;05 - 00;51;34;07
MITALI
It's the vegan, the meat that wants to protect all the vegans, you know, it's just like, Well, how are you going to make this money? But how you use I feel bottle was taking the money. You know. But I need to take the money because I have these amazing vegan editors and colleges. Are they they need to be paid for what they do as well.
00;51;34;16 - 00;51;44;12
MITALI
So that's why I would say one in two people I turn away, I just say go and establish something first and then let's talk. You know.
00;51;44;17 - 00;51;48;21
JAMIE
I would love it. You have an all vegan team to the African of.
00;51;49;01 - 00;52;10;20
MITALI
It's important to me there's something I realized Jamie is you know as vegans we are now becoming aware of you know it's not just enough for us to abstain. We to make an impact. We need to send a message out there in the world that we will take our money to places that do not promote harm and torture and murdering.
00;52;11;07 - 00;52;30;10
MITALI
And I realize, you know, for a number of my vegan authors, especially, they want to welcome me knowing that all the money they spent with me is not going anywhere else. It's only going into vegan pockets, only going to be used for right things. It's not going to be used to harm anybody. Right.
00;52;30;25 - 00;52;40;18
JAMIE
Right. That's amazing. That's amazing. I mean, I think that what you're doing is selling is so important. We need vegans taking over every area of the idea.
00;52;40;18 - 00;53;02;11
MITALI
That's my my core mission is an army of vegan published authors. I just want I want my office. I just basically want to be in a world where I can't move without falling over one of my. Okay, so they're the keynote speaking. They're on podcasts, they're everywhere with social media and fact. How are we going to get this movement to that next level where, like I said, we have a vegan normal world?
00;53;02;14 - 00;53;22;24
MITALI
Well, no longer the minority. We just need to infiltrate it. We need to be in government, you know? Yeah, we're we need we just need I mean, we just had the first town in the UK signed the Plant-Based Treaty a few weeks ago and in the South I'm like, I'm living in the north and like I want my town to be the first northern town, you know.
00;53;23;04 - 00;53;44;09
MITALI
So I'm pressing for that. But the sad thing is everyone in my council is not vegan, so we need to be. But that way to get that kind of authority to be a keynote speaker, just consider yourself to be like, I could be a local councilor. You know, if the authority comes from being a published author is unsurpassed by anything else, you know.
00;53;44;09 - 00;54;02;26
MITALI
So yeah, I want to empower people to, as I see it in my authors, I see they have this glow about them that once they become public, they do. They kind of feel like, Yes, I am shit hot, I'm pretty cuddly and that we need that confidence because that's how we're going to get into positions of power and make that change.
00;54;03;15 - 00;54;05;21
JAMIE
Well, I will be coming to you one day.
00;54;06;00 - 00;54;11;27
MITALI
Yeah, I'd be privileged. Jamie, if you ever want to write the book, I would be privileged to be your publisher.
00;54;11;29 - 00;54;19;14
JAMIE
Oh, amazing. Yeah, I still. I think. I need to do a little bit more work, but when the.
00;54;19;14 - 00;54;20;10
MITALI
Time is right.
00;54;20;15 - 00;54;26;05
JAMIE
Exactly. So where can people find you and how can they get in touch with you?
00;54;26;11 - 00;54;47;19
MITALI
Well, you can just go into my website, the vegan publisher. Pretty simple. Just type in the vegan publisher and you'll find me. You can contact me there and all just find me on social media. I'm after vegan publisher, everyone's social media. So LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, whatever you prefer, even tik-tok. Although I don't read, do anything on Tik Tok, I don't think I should be doing dance videos or anything like that.
00;54;47;19 - 00;55;10;25
MITALI
I don't think that fits with my brand. Although I do love dancing and but you still find me, you know, still find me and you can send me a message. Yeah. I'm very, very easily easy to find. Especially my surname is De Pixlr and I've checked. Me and my family are the only ones in the entire world. I mean, there are other de pictures, but they've obviously spelt their names differently.
00;55;11;01 - 00;55;24;21
MITALI
So the way that mine is spelled, even on Facebook, which has the biggest reach, have all social media, the only de potatoes you'll find is me and my family. So you go and find me. I'm very, very easy to find. You won't. You won't miss me.
00;55;25;04 - 00;55;28;21
JAMIE
That's great. My boyfriend's last name is Sunny, and it's like every other.
00;55;28;24 - 00;55;49;29
MITALI
Oh, my God. Of. Oh, gosh, yes. That's a huge that's a climb. But is it. Yeah. That there's loads of them. Yeah. I've seen loads of them. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a Smith or a Jones really isn't it. Yeah. No with my, with my surname you'll feel metallic vaporizer. You just find me instantly. Yeah. So do get in contact with me.
00;55;50;05 - 00;56;11;25
MITALI
Tell me your book idea is I do very privileged Jamie love I'm doing this because now I've just I just just before I spoke to you today are speaking to a gentleman called Peter who he he's from Hungary. And he came over when he was close to being put into a concentration camp. And he's a gentleman in his late sixties.
00;56;11;25 - 00;56;33;27
MITALI
So he lived through the Nazis of the now completely vegan. And he now makes that link between the Holocaust and veganism and that sort of animal holocaust. And he's looking to write a book now. So I've given some ideas to one think about. I feel so privileged because I'm doing what I'm doing and now having these amazing people contact me with that book idea.
00;56;33;27 - 00;56;47;02
MITALI
So whatever book idea you've got, even if it's a bit weird or a bit strange, get in. Touch me. Even if I can help you. I'm pretty sure I know somebody within the book world who might be able to help you. So do get in touch. And because I just love to hear ideas.
00;56;47;28 - 00;57;02;10
JAMIE
Oh, that is amazing. Well, thank you so much for coming on, for sharing your story, for doing all the work that you're doing. I'm very inspired by you and you guys get in touch with Natalie because we are going to just take over the world.
00;57;02;10 - 00;57;07;03
MITALI
Yes, we are the army and army of vegan Polish authors. That's what I want.
00;57;07;29 - 00;57;21;22
JAMIE
Yes, exactly. Well, you are amazing and we will just be in touch. Thank you guys for listening.